Simple as the title says: Why is society so hard to work within whether online or physically in person
I am done… with all of it. Trying to collaborate with people online, seeking medical advice or mental health advice in person. Talking to people I don’t know. Just why is it so hard? I’m cancelling all medical appointments, everything besides getting vaccinations. I want to be mad or sad. Though deep down. Time and time again I’ve been shown. Society isn’t ready or willing to interact with me. My unwanted thought stream wants to say Fucking Burn in Hell but what I truly wish to say. Is, I hope one day. People can look beyond what is comfortable for them. Understand that not everything is black and white. That most of the constraints we have in our life. Is simply social constructs but sadly my ideas go far beyond anything that can be fathomed by humanity and society. My last message. Look beyond yourselves, look at the nature around you and what we are losing. Ask yourself what is truly real. I do hope you all find peace and happiness in whatever comes next. Remember you are all loved and meaningful in this reality.
People can look beyond what is comfortable for them. Understand that not everything is black and white
That goes both ways, friend.
Unplug, lay off any substances. Take walks. Meditate. At least a month. Get to know the you before you were born (the indomable peace).
Very much so! Also I haven’t been on any substances for a long time.
That’s great! It takes time and effort. You’ve got this.
What’s the common denominator in all these difficult encounters?
You are.
Don’t shoot me, for I’m only a messenger As a rule in life, if you can blame everything on everyone around you it’s time to look inwards for change. I’m just saying, maybe it’s not all of us, maybe it’s you? My first reaction to reading your post was to suggest a therapist. And I’m saying that as somebody who isn’t great at social interactions either.
We lionize medical professionals as these infallible gods in lab coats. They’re only human too, although they would not admit that. It’s good to keep that in mind; alter your perception to work with them on you rather than you being fully serviced by them.
I’m hesitant to respond to any of these messages but I will to this one. And yes I fully understand what you mean in the first part. And I have looked into myself. Don’t extensive work beyond anything most people do. Though the main issue comes where my ideas are so beyond what most people can accept or think is true. Making me feel incredibly isolated and I believe you could understand. Eventually it’s better to just stop communicating online? I wouldn’t mind getting a therapist if I can even afford it.
I got to this point by the time. I went to see about a medical problem today but realize. They don’t even do physical exams or anything to see if anything I say has merit. They instead look and put a certain label on it without evaluating it. Then when I go to ask individuals online. It seems they can’t consider it. Can’t even interact even if skeptical. And most my post seem to get so much more hate than even skeptical interactions.
My idea of doctors is an equal partner. I can research things suggest things and they help cross those things out.
Do you have a medical degree? Why do you think you know more than people who studied the topic for years?
Don’t get started about doctors being competent because they got themselves a degree.
Obviously someone who hasn’t studied knows less than someone who got a medical degree. But a medical degree is the absolute minimum, the base knowledge. Current research goes way beyond anything a medical degree can teach, and quite obviously so. Medical knowledge is vast, no one is or will ever able to know all of it. Getting a degree gives you a base, a knowledge about the most common ailments, theoretically the ability to get more knowledge if necessary, the ability to assess which new knowledge is useful, and so on. But unless you are specifically well-read in a particular topic, even a doctor with a medical degree is unlikely to know the full picture about a particular ailment.
And even if someone is well-read in a particular topic, human medical knowledge is still incredibly bad, there’s so many things we just don’t know. Even with perfect, up-to-date knowledge on a topic, it’s easily possible to have no explanation or no solution.
So doctors, just like any other humans, go around acting all knowledgeable, and yes, they are more knowledgeable than others. And yes, for common ailments, that have been well-studied, and that they have done additional reading about, they may give good advice. But all doctors are also fallible, they’re all prone to normal human mental biases, like confirmation bias and so on. And they work in a deeply flawed system, completely overworked, too many patients, too little time per patient, and so on.
So it’s very likely all this medical degree, all this knowledge in a doctor’s head is entirely useless for the current situation. You may go to a doctor, and they might not have read the current literature on the ailment you have. They may not identify the ailment you have correctly because it’s very similar to another one. They may not be very thorough, as they may have personal issues or just pressure in a terrible system.
And then someone comes to them with a little bit rarer thing. They slap a “common thing” label on them quickly because they pattern-match from their own incomplete knowledge. As a patient, you’re left feeling like something is missing, and there likely is. It’s very very simple to know more than doctors, research is mostly public, and no doctor has read all research, and you may just hit their specific knowledge gap. In total, they still know much more than you, but in this very specific ailment, you might suddenly know more than the doctor, at least partially, just because a doctor can never know everything.
And then you try to explain to them that there must be something more to it than they know, than they say, and what is the result? “Do you have a medical degree? No? Why do you assume you know more than me?” It’s not an unreasonable argument, and patients are often exactly as stupid and filled with mental biases as doctors are.
But if a patient’s needs are not met, if the “common thing” diagnosis does not satisfy them, if there are unexplained things left, this “I am the doctor, I have the degree” is utterly irrelevant, it is necessary to listen and to consider alternatives, and to also consider one’s (the doctor’s) knowledge might not be enough. It’s necessary to be empathetic and take your time, something rarely done by doctors. It is necessary to explain. Necessary to work to come to a common ground. All not done by doctors, or any human, very often.
I guess what I’m saying is, if there is a question still in a patient’s mind, then the doctor didn’t do a very good job. And most doctors do a very bad job.
You do know docs need continuing learning throughout their career…. Right?
Also, as someone in healthcare (not a doc), your interpretation is… wild at best
I know doctors who get the same CE year after year after year, not because they want to stay up to date but because they want an easy way to keep their licensure. About 70% of my medical clients for that pattern.
Of course I know docs need continuous learning. But do they get all knowledge from that? Of course not. There are still gaps in their knowledge, and like I say, also gaps in scientific medical knowledge itself.
Which interpretation exactly? Can you elaborate please? I’m actually curious in what you think I’m wrong about.
No I don’t have a degree in medical but I have studied medical from Yale. I acknowledge that I am nowhere as knowledgeable as a doctor but if a doctor can’t cooperate and work with the patient why are they in that position. I’m not saying the things I bring up would be 100% correct. Though in the past I did this
Diagnosis hypothesis
Possible diagnosis 1#
Symptoms I know I have
Possible Diagnosis 2#
Symptoms I have
Possible Diagnosis as many as it takes
Symptoms I have
Then
My best guessed diagnosis
With symptoms making me consider
I look for them to help me work through these and see which are more likely than find the correct one if any are.
I wanted you to see this part, @[email protected]
Since in this instance. This is how I found out I had Bipolar and BPD. While it’s harder for medical specifically. It’s not impossible.
What did you study at Yale?
This is a good approach imo, and if you truly didn’t get the doctor you talked to to take you seriously and fully address your concerns, then they might be a lost cause. Some people are simply not capable.
What ideas exactly?
Well you’ve heard of E=Mc^2. The statement that allows for energy and matter to be interchangeable. Now let’s go to another topic. Have you heard. Magic is the manipulation of energy to alter your reality.
Now what happens when we connect both as one?
This is something I looked into to understand magic.
That’s one of them. The idea of even mentioning this. Makes them instantly assume I’m crazy even though my psychiatrist ruled delusions or psychosis out.
Another person you’ll see in here. Said I’m manifesting wings. Even though if they’ve actually read my post. They would understand that it’s not manifesting but just an induced adaption similar to evolution. Using E=MC^2 in magic. Which included rebuilding my back muscles and new bones in it, rebuilt spine, sternum, arms, kneecaps, fused ribs and extended. And much more.
They say there’s no obvious changes or any medical professional would jump at the chance to discover it. Though I’ve let my medical team know and without an exam on me they rule everything out. When all they had to do was feel for separation between my ribs. Then it opens up a completely new picture.
It certainly sounds like there’s something missing in the doctor’s knowledge, or in them explaining it to you. Doctors very often dismiss patients because they are also only human, and they work in a terrible system that encourages them to quickly get rid of patients.
So I fully encourage you to go back, or go to a different doctor, and get a fuller picture of the problem, make them explain, and get all your needs met.
However, your explanation is extremely far-fetched, you jump from different concepts that are not proven to be related to others. You also need to consider that you might be wrong, you can’t only assume by default that the doctor is wrong. They have assimilated lots of medical knowledge which you have not, which doesn’t mean they will have good knowledge about your particular situation.
But maybe they do have good knowledge about your particular situation. Maybe you just didn’t understand them because you yourself are missing knowledge. It’s their responsibility to help you understand, but it’s also your responsibility to be open to gain a new understanding, which you don’t seem to be. You seem to be very sure of your explanation, which you, at least from what I can see, you have no real reason to be sure, at least not more than the doctor.
It’s that they don’t explain to me or even try and see if there’s any merit in it. And yeah as you said. There is a system that encourages them to quickly get rid of patients.
I wouldn’t mind going back to a doctor and see but I don’t want to waste my time. It’s like how many times are they just going to ask a basic questionnaire and then dismiss me without trying to find out anything.
Lastly. While I can see why it seems incredibly far fetched the idea i mentioned. I don’t see how it wouldn’t make sense. I mean I will say there’s a big possibility I could be wrong in a certain manor but it is how I learned to understand it. And it seemingly worked very well. Though no one seems to be able to explain why it would be wrong or even be able to get anywhere that far without just labeling it mental illness or being non constructive.
The thing with doctors is, you have to do your own work to disrupt their standard way of working. It’s actually really hard, but it’s possible. You have to basically be persistent but very polite and understanding of them. You have to keep asking questions until you are either satisfied or are sure that they can’t help you because they’re too closed off. You can’t let them dismiss you even when they try.
You have to basically make them think of you as a person rather than a patient. Doctors can be very empathetic and helpful when you manage to do this, because then they remember why they became doctors, because they want to help people. But it is work on your side to get them to this state, which is annoying and not always possible, so I can completely understand why you wouldn’t want to “waste your time”.
As for your idea, it does definitely make sense. The question I would personally pose would be more like, how does it help you? What do you actually want from the doctor? Do you want their understanding or do you want medical help in some way? What’s your goal there?
Theoretically, if you want, you can just look for studies or other information on your particular situation. But usually, a doctor will be much better at this, because they have contextual knowledge or other kind of advantages that will help them find the correct studies more quickly, or interpret them more accurately. The hard part is getting them to do it. I had success with this by pointing out inconsistencies in the symptoms, by asking for explanations, by asking them where they got their information from.
I guess the most important thing I want from a doctor. Is to listen to me. Even if they doubt it. I would like help understanding what may all happen. Maybe help finding out where to get scans to help science. Like I don’t know whether only the upper and middle portions of my ribs are fused or fully. Beyond that like today. I went today to see about hydration and they pushed me quickly out of the door. Though I drank 33 fl ounces of pedialtye in 2-3 days and each day 4-5 water bottles and still wasn’t hydrated enough to feel comfortable.
The magic is doing the work, friend, not painting roses red.
I agree with you conceptually. Society is bonkers.
However, it is possible for everyone to build themselves a subset of society that is adapted to them. It is possible for everyone to build a community, a group of friends, that share values. No matter how “out there” it is.
And let me tell you, what can be read from you is quite “out there”. If you go to a scientist/doctor and talk about magic, it can be easily expected for them to dismiss your words. I’m not saying that’s right of them. Magic can or can not exist. I’m talking about knowing reality, and reality is that if you talk about magic in front of scientifically minded individuals, your words will likely be dismissed. You will likely make this experience again with the same approach, and if you want people to listen, you have to veil your true beliefs, so what you say is acceptable to them. This is a sad state of affairs, I certainly agree, but people are not very open-minded usually, and you have to adapt your approach to whoever you talk with.
I’m not saying anything you think is either right or wrong. The only thing I would like to say is that you seem like you “know” more than you actually can know. We should always come from a point of “not knowing” by default, and only believe/know something if we can be very very sure about it. “Not knowing” is very scary though, it’s very hard to “not know”. I can always understand the need for explanations. But clutching to explanations based on fear leads to missing scrutiny of beliefs, leading to possibly wrong beliefs. Holding wrong beliefs is very problematic, as any prediction you make can be off, leading you to make wrong decisions.
In any case, I wish you well, hope you can find people to truly listen to you, and hope that you can also truly listen to people.
Thank you. You responded kindly. As for a group of individuals. I do have them. Though the biggest issue. Is no one has the knowledge to help me understand the induced biological processes that I am going through.
I have you tagged in my Lemmy client so I remember who you are. We’ve interacted a few times, not much. I am going to tell you what I think but I’m not going to be at around the bush. I am not trying to be rude. You are mentally ill. You have some problem that isn’t being treated by whatever medicine you are on. You’ve said that your doctor is happy with your treatment, but also said you are manifesting wings. You are not. That is the mental illness talking, and that is why society is so hard for you. Your brain isn’t working on a wavelength that the rest of us are comfortable with.
I mentioned you in another comment. Now can I ask why you assumed manifesting is the correct word. Since if you took time to read my post in the past. You’d understand it’s not manifesting rather and induced biological adaptation similar to evolution. I haven’t even done anything for it in over 8-10 months. And before that hadn’t been for years. Most of these changes are happening without my influence after I already started it.
I’d say it’s more, society has conditioned individuals to instantly assume this is mentally Ill and impossible but when someone actually connects dots that make sense beyond typical magic. It is extremely uncomfortable.
Edit:Just as always when someone mentions something that doesn’t match the story you are trying to put. You begin non constructive and outright dismissive and then when I respond and it doesn’t match what you like. You downvote and don’t even try to be constructive.
You have mental health issues. Address them.
And I have.
I believe I took the word manifesting from one of your posts. :) But I don’t mind. I just wanted to make sure you had your answer, even if you didn’t want to hear it.
Yeah no. The answer you gave is specifically part of what the post is about. Your own subjective interpretation and experience into life makes it unable to see anything beyond what is comfortable to you as real. As seen. With your last message.
See because here’s the issue. When people say they believe there’s no superficial evidence (easily noticeable without scans) there is. Though no medical expert has done anything more than just questionnaires. If they would simply feel my upper ribs. They’d feel no separation leading to whole new Avenue. Beyond that the issue is. You are so quickly to dismiss it as mental health issues without actually trying to understand what is happening. So you are a prime example of what this post in tails.
I didn’t need to try to understand. I already know. I hope you can get the help you need.
Do you though? Since ever since the beginning talking to others about this many individuals instantly go to mental health or it’s impossible without actually trying to understand or even stepping back and helping me understand what the full processes will do. You say you already know but you aren’t my psychiatrist are you? And see this
“I don’t need to try and understand. I already know.”
This is exactly what I mean. If you won’t even try and understand an idea that stands as an idea that is radically different from what you are used to or believe. It is instantly mental health. See I have no issue discussing with people who believe it’s fake or not exactly right. Though those individuals are constructive rather than outright unable to think of ideas that are outside of their level of understanding or near it.
You’re right. I didn’t try to understand. Because it is impossible in my world. We are t living in the same universe so I can’t understand you. One of us has mental health issues. It could be me that needs help and you’re absolutely right. Or it’s you. I can’t try to understand you just like you can’t understand me.
We’ve been raised in an individualist society.
It is easy. If you have a goal. Ask a concrete question and you’ll receive a concrete answer. What can be easier? If you don’t have a concrete question then why do you bother people you don’t know?
Continue to take your prescribed pills. Do something meaningful.
What’s the question?
Some people just suck, and it’s because of those people that we can’t have nice things.
Don’t get me wrong, most people are barely sentient and we’ve deliberately created the world to be a bad as it can be, but it seems like you’re complaining about your own deal a bit there.
