Literally illegal. Discussing crimes doesn’t equal crime, so there’s no reason for them to requeust IPs. And at least in the EU you aren’t even allowed to disclose information related to your person.
It’s not illegal if they ask for it and reddit gives it to them.
This is why companies sell your info to the police.
Who still can’t find bad guys, even with video evidence.
They are the bad guys
I could give you a full breakdown of how it works in EU, but basically there needs to be indisputable evidence that a crime occured for any party to subpoena any ISP or service provider company. Otherwise those companies will be in huge trouble. The one doing the subpoena because they wouldn’t have an order for that and if they fuck around right before suing, courts will not take kindly to that. And the other receiving the subpoena for disclosing personal information (although they’d maybe win a defense to that, because if they did their due diligence they are not supposed to tank the damages).
What I’m saying is, considering currently laws in the EU, I think we’re good. Of course IANAL so ask one if you need specific advice.
Did they actually issue a subpoena though, or did they just send some emails saying “give pls”.
A subpoena is a legal document and thus there are rules that go along with it. But an email asking to be given something is not a subpoena.
You should read the article. I don’t agree with them, but it’s more nuanced than that/isn’t about discussing piracy.
They are basically trying to get the IP‘s so that they can claim frontier is at fault and not being proactive. It is not actually targeting the users in a way that is designed to go after them individually. It’s trying to prove users are using frontier to pirate with impunity.
That’s not really extra nuance, and is about discussing piracy.
The premise that an ISP has an obligation to proactively monitor traffic when they shouldn’t even legally be permitted to do so is disgusting.
I literally said I don’t agree with them lol but the point is they aren’t trying to figure out who is discussing piracy on Reddit. They are trying to implicate frontier. Again, I don’t agree. I am against this.
That’s not a meaningful distinction.
They’re still trying to take action against discussion of piracy. The target does not matter and is not meaningful to the discussion.
What? That is incredibly meaningful. The legal implications are are very distinct, and also open some pretty frightening doors.
If we can’t even distinguish the legal channels they are trying to screw us with, how can we possibly protect Internet privacy?
I get you want to win an Internet argument or whatever but let’s keep our eye on the ball here, dude
The important legal concept is that it’s literally impossible for discussion of piracy to entitle them to any information in any possible context.
The target of their harassment does not matter. Giving them a single bit of data is every bit as unconditionally unacceptable in either case, and you don’t get to any ruling on anything else unless you bypass that.
Again, this isn’t about the discussions. They are taking IP’s discussing it and tracing them to frontier. They’re “moving upstream” instead of targeting users, which means they need less info,the discussion themselves are immaterial because they aren’t targeting individuals - which means it’s more likely. This is a different tactic.
“I saw a guy get shot last night. He was close enough I was able to record the whole thing in my phone. The police say that the victim was wearing a blue shirt, but didn’t mention they were also wearing a yellow hat. I’ve saved the footage, but I won’t be posting it anywhere, so don’t even ask.”
I make that statement on Reddit. Investigators see that my statement matches their crime scene.
They can subpoena Reddit for my reddit account information, including the IP address from which I posted that comment. They can subpoena the ISP who controlled that IP address and get subscriber information. They can then go to that subscriber and request and require their assistance in identifying the specific person who made that comment. They can then question that commenter as a witness, and subpoena their video.
That’s basically what the rightsholders are trying to do here: subpoena “witnesses” to Frontier violating its duties under Safe Harbor provisions.
I agree that they should be told to go fuck themselves with rusty Buicks, but they do have a (tenuous) legal claim for the information they seek.
Nobody is claiming that Frontier should be monitoring traffic.
Safe harbor provisions require them to forward DMCA letters to subscribers when rightsholders send them, and suspend service to repeat violators.
A subscriber who has received 44 DMCA letters without Frontier suspending their service is evidence that Frontier is not abiding by their safe harbor obligations.
The rightsholders want the identity of a person willing to make such a claim, so that person can be compelled to testify that they weren’t lying their ass off when they made that claim.
Great explanation, it’s what I was hoping to write until my lemmy client crashed with the unfinished comment.
I’m curious what would happen if some copyright holder tried to get information about a user on lemmy. Iirc only the users instance could log their IP, but almost all instances are run by volunteers, so risking a lawsuit might no be viable. Just look at what Tachiyomi devs have to go through, even though all they’re doing was and is legal.
I am very much against this and totally agree. I think this could open some really dangerous doors re: internet privacy.
Wear a VPN, folks.
even if they have our ip addresses, they can’t take any legal actions for discussing about piracy right?
Not unless you talk about how you will commit or have committed a specific instance of piracy. E.g. “I downloaded back to the future last night from (insert website)”. Then they have reasonable suspicion and can start to subpoena.
Obligatory IANAL. Always do research and ask in lawyer if you wanna talk specifics.
They don’t care. It’s the film industry equivalent to the Microsoft support scammers. Get a bunch of targets, spam out hundreds of thousands of threatening emails, profit off the small percent of people who fall for it.
I had a Microsoft support scammer once… I let him in to my system too…well not really.
I quickly spin up a quick fresh install of slack ware Linux in a virtual machine that didn’t even have x11 never mind wine installed. When it was up I told him a friend uses something called tellynet (aka telnet but I was playing dumb) to help me on the computer.
He telnetted in and could not understand why any of his malware wasn’t working…
uses something called tellynet (aka telnet but I was playing dumb)
I wonder if he got the joke, or was a scriptkiddie who just relies on existing tools without understanding them, and thought you meant television or similar.
They’re basically telemarketing workers with hacking tools provided by an employer. They follow scripts and click the buttons they’ve been trained to use.
I’m surprised they got in with telnet and not their usual RDP. However I’m not sure they would have gotten anywhere on a Linux box with commands that are so different, unless they were a little familiar with at least MacOS (bash or zsh based now a days).
Even further what’s the point? It’s been ruled (usa) that an IP address doesn’t equal a person. https://www.techspot.com/news/76190-us-court-appeals-ip-address-isnt-enough-identify.html
If discussing crimes equals crime then police, CEOs, and politicians should all be in jail.
Here’s mine, come and get me
127.0.0.1Haha, I’m firing a DDOS tool at you, tha
Remember LOIC?
Charging up muh lazors
deleted by creator
Where’d you go?
why are you in my house on my network?
I’m planting cat pictures throughout your file system
i think there’s some room for more of those over in that corner over there.
woah mine too
How are you me?
deleted by creator
I’m you
I for one want to be in compliance. Here is my IP, I checked it in Microsoft windows so it is correct. 192.168.0.1
Text me at that IP if I need to pay a fine or if I need to go to my local jail. Thanks guys, I’m sorry I pirated and I will re upload all the movie films that I downloaded to try to make this right.
Holy shit! My IP is 192.168.1.1!
What are the odds!?
Omg, you are probably my neighbor!
Neighbours awwww
They were neighbors!
hunter2
All I see is 192.168.0.2
172.16.0.0/16 represent
I believe that the following IP ranges
- 103.231.144.0/24
- 192.31.196.0/24
- 216.176.216.0/21
- 199.248.239.0/24
- 192.198.30.0/24
- 69.12.98.42
are engaged in highly suspicious activities
furthermore I can definitely say that I found some dirty pirates hiding at the following ip ranges:
- 175.45.176.0/24
- 175.45.177.0/24
- 175.45.178.0/24
- 175.45.179.0/24
my research clearly shows proof that those people are not just pirates but also engaged in highly illegal activities such as stealing BILLIONS of dollars and hacking who knows how many servers, and that’s only the crimes one can talk about online.
if you don't get the joke
no, I didn’t share IPs that anyone here would ever have, I guarantee it, if you don’t get the joke look up “bogon routes” and then look up which ASN owns the other set.
It looks more legit than people who use 192.168.0.0/16, 8.8.8.8, 127.0.0.1, or any other things like that because most people don’t know about those.
Also bonus info:
here’s a tip for you, if you’re a sysadmin just go ahead and ban those IP ranges on your machines, if you ever get packets from them it’s an attack 99.999999% of the time (I guess unless you have customers in north korea? in which case only block the first ones and all other bogon routes)
Thanks for that tip, had no idea about bogon routes
I’ve noticed reddit has recently started shadowbanning my posts when I have a vpn active so I’d say at this point it’s probably completely unsafe to discuss anything on.
Absolutely. That and the recent vpn blocking changes has made using reddit absolutely unbearable.
just remember to be honest with the police and give your real name, Robert’); DROP TABLE Prisoners;–
Naughty Bobby!
Please tell me this never worked for the sake of humanity
little bobby tables destroyed his schools records. :(
Oh you overestimate the government. Many systems still running on XP. Our government contracts for our company software are still on versions from 13 years ago.
192.168.1.420
8.00.8.5
yes sir, my ip is 8.8.8.8
Mine is 9.9.9.9
Wait… Mine is 9.9.9.9, too!
IngloriousBasterds.gif
Then provide better streaming options including price and service. Piracy will always win whether they like it or not.
I’m surprised Netflix is still around at their price rate and the way they keep canceling shows. I jumped on the BF deal for Peacock, because I wasn’t gonna pay the full price.
I only have Peacock for WWE, so everything is a bonus. But not everybody is gonna pay for 7 services monthly or yearly. Either put it all under one service or understand some of us are gonna pirate.
Amazon prime is gonna start having ads this month, so people are gonna have to pay more for ad free on top of prime membership or pirate to avoid ads. Before we know, they’ll start putting ads in games while they load.
WWE? Bubba, it may be cheaper to simply attend some local monster truck rallies or rodeos.
Well I’m talking about the WWE monthly PPVs. But I got the $20/yr black Friday deal and then $6/mo no ads.
It would be great if piracy instances were hosted on I2P and TOR. Then these chucklefucks would have nothing.
Apology for hijacking your comment, but I wanted to ask you a question about the Creative Commons link you put at the end of your comment.
Are you doing that because of people who may use your comments to train AI reasons?
If so, do you think legally that covers it, since it’s a link, and not just the text itself?
In other words, would an AI trainer have to drill into the link before your comment is covered by that clause?
That’s a good question that I don’t have an answer to as I have no legal training. I’m assuming if you can sign a contract online where the legal text is behind a link and the main offer is what you see… maybe? Technically, it wouldn’t be too difficult to simply erase any mention of a license in a pre-cleaning phase of the data, but I don’t know if the act itself would be an even bigger indication of guilt. There would be no excuse like “oops, I just copied this data into my training set, teehee”. But as I said, not a legal expert.
If there are copyright experts that want to weigh in, I’d be interested to hear their opinion. Given that there are running, unanswered cases (most notably again Microsoft’s Copilot), and Japan on the verge of drafting into law that AI training data can ignore copyright, it’s possible even legal experts would have a hard time answer the question.
I’m putting them here just in case. Only costs me a line carriage and a Ctrl+V.
If there are copyright experts that want to weigh in, I’d be interested to hear their opinion.
Myself as well. It’s a new frontier, legally.
I’m putting them here just in case. Only costs me a line carriage and a Ctrl+V.
Seeing that you have done that made me start to think about doing it myself, as I definitely feel there are days when I’m being shadowed by AI training mechanisms.
But if it doesn’t make any difference legally as a deterrent, then I wouldn’t bother.
Even if it’s ruled illegal in the US, there’s nothing stopping AI companies from moving their operations to Japan where copyright doesn’t apply to training data.
It will definitely be interesting to see how all of the shakes out, legally wise.
But if it doesn’t make any difference legally as a deterrent, then I wouldn’t bother.
Once that’s determined, then yeah, I won’t bother either. Until then though… CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
What the person using those links does not realize is that a Creative Commons license relaxes restrictions rather than imposing additional ones.
Everything you create is already protected by copyright by default. If you publish an essay and don’t append any license to it, nobody may republish or remix that essay without your permission, unless an exception like fair use applies. The exact restrictions will depend on local laws.
By using a Creative Commons license, you choose to forgo some of those copyright protections. Thus the comments of the person you replied to are actually less protected than yours or mine.
I should start adding that to my comments too! Buuuut…
Whatever suits your fancy.
Or maybe even a mirror so if you wanted to keep your ip hidden you could.
I thought this was already decided by a court in autumn 2023. Is this an appeal?
As far as I understand it, the studios are trying a different angle: They are not suing Reddit this time, but an ISP and want Reddit to provide the data of costumers of that ISP.
Stupid question: What’s the point behind this? Is this actually financially viable for a company in the long run? Was this an attempt to get Reddit to crack down on those subs?
Isn’t this always a fight against windmills? i.e., you can’t fight a symptom without addressing the market as a whole?
I think this was related to their plan before, in the case that got decided (specifically that Reddit didn’t have to reveal the IP addies of its clients), but that’s always been a problem especially if an ip address leads to a router or is dynamic at the ISP, then there’s no certainty it can be identified with a single person.
This is how the whole twelve-strikes program was formed where big name ISPs would (hypothetically) give demerits and eventually throttle or disconnect ISP addies that were identified as engaging in infringing activity. The problem is, clients stopped wanting to pay their bills when quality deteriorated, so it’s not consistently enforced. In fact, companies that are not Comcast or Xfinity are motivated not to do anything beyond threats.
ETA: Similarly, it’s actually to the benefit of social media websites to preserve the privacy of their clients, since incidents in which they cooperate with law enforcement reduces engagement. Google used to have a robust legal resistance to giving away personal data. It was deteriorated through enshittification, but now Google has lost enough reputation that it’s looking for ways to preserve privacy, like the new effort to constrain personal map data to devices, so Google is unable to respond to location dragnet warrants. They’re still in trouble for search-term warrants.
(Note the map thing is not yet rolled out, so don’t use Google maps when burying your bodies.)
Man I know some cosplayers can be annoying but I think that’s overkill
lol get fucked wanker bros
Sure… here’s mine…
🖕.💩.🍆.🍑
tl;dr: The users’ comments say that a certain ISP is pirate-friendly. Studios want to use the comments against the ISP (not the users).
“pirate friendly” meaning not snitching on their own paying customers? Wow
Basically, yes. They want ISPs to police us.
I just thought “pirate-friendly” was concise.
Is it possible a film studio, or legal agency, could set up a Lemmy Instance and then capture all our IPs?
AP protocol doesn’t propagate your IP
Absolutely. One of the biggest child porn groups is an FBI front for this purpose. I’d google the subject for a link but umm…no
So basically the only thing protecting our anonymity is the relative unpopularity of Lemmy?
To expand on this. If you are talking about anything online it is not private. That doesn’t matter if it’s in a WhatsApp chat, a telegram chat, a Lemmy post, a Facebook feed, etc. as soon as it hits a computer if someone wants to see it they will. There’s just hurdles to get it.
If you want anonymity stop using computers.
Ain’t this the truth.
Here’s story about a serial killer being caught by a floppy drive’s meta data.
https://www.grunge.com/332018/heres-how-the-btk-killer-was-finally-caught/
Detectives were able to run relatively simple tests to determine that the file had last been saved by a user named “Dennis,” and it had been printed using one of the printers at the nearby Christ Lutheran Church.
Maybe the article is badly worded, but it seems like they got metadata from the file, not the floppy disk itself.
It was either the FAT file or the file itself. The case is famous.
Few things more fun than telling people who harp about vaccines being tracking chips that if they’re worried about tracking they should ditch their smartphone, and watching them rage.
You mean the always-on GPS-enabled internet-connected microphone and camera which is also likely Bluetooth and NFC beaconing and contains all of my most personal data including my name, contacts, unencrypted chats facilitated by major cell phone carriers, photos, emails, and other personal files which are also likely synced with a cloud service operated by major multi-national corporations, and also stores biometric data such as facial recognition, fingerprints, time spent sleeping, and even heart rate and number of steps taken assuming you have “fitness” features enabled?
With those last couple items, these massive companies that regularly share data with law enforcement are literally tracking your every step and nearly every beat of your heart.
Well don’t worry about that, I’ve got Express VPN.
Privacy and anonymity are not the same thing.
You’re not anonymous online either FYI.
Depends what and how you do it. VPN gives some level of anonymity. TOR even more so. These give you probably greater anonymity than anything else you have in offline live.
Tell me you know nothing about computers without telling me you know nothing about computers.
Removed by mod
😂 at least I’m not pretending I know anything about copyright
I wanted to let you know that you’re honesty with this comment made me chuckle.
The internet is at it’s worst when it’s popular
The Federation of lemmy/mastodon instances is the worst part about it
Yup. About 7 years ago I used to darkweb pretty hard in the drug scene (I haven’t in years so have at it, Mr. FBI).
Anyway I used Reddit subs a lot for info on new markets and onions, reliable sellers, and news on exit scams etc, but I only lurked - never commented. Anyone with a brain in their head knew they were honeypots.
Hope I didn’t fall for Any honeypots. I sometimes wonder about posts in Piracy communities.
I’m not sure that this is how it works in practice, but ideally: Unless you are registered in their stance / are browsing directly in their website, your client shouldn’t be making any direct requisitions to their instance, so there is nothing they can infer your IP from. (Everything you interact with is comes directly your instance - the only thing that interacts with other instances is the server) That said, it’s possible for some links to direct to the original stance, in which case your client will have to make requests directly to the original instance hosting the content… looking around in this page a bit, it looks like the Community images (banner, icon etc.) are linking directly to the original instance, so I guess that’s a little bit of a problem - but just that shouldn’t be enough information for them to connect the dots between the IP address fetching the image and the account you’re using to browse
Don’t images also link back to the original instance?
They would just have to start DMing us meme images hosted on a server they control, and they’d get a list of IPs. All we’d have to do is look.
Fwiw, this would work on Reddit too.
Unless anyone shared the in image link anywhere else on the internet. “Judge, they looked at this publicly accessible image” is hardly evidence
“Judge, they looked at this publicly accessible image” is hardly evidence
Sometimes you don’t have to win a court case legally, to win a court case. Just the harassment of the lawsuit is enough.
“Judge, they looked at this publicly accessible image” is hardly evidenceSometimes you don’t have to win a court case legally, to win a court case. Just the harassment of the lawsuit is enough.
That’s not a lawsuit they would even attempt, as it would get immediately thrown out.
That’s not a lawsuit they would even attempt, as it would get immediately thrown out.
People use the threat of lawsuit as an intimidation tactic all the time.
So they would send random DMs with pictures, to threaten lawsuits they couldn’t enforce, to achieve what exactly?
So they would send random DMs with pictures, to threaten lawsuits they couldn’t enforce, to achieve what exactly?
They wouldn’t have to send random DM’s if they got the IP addresses more directly, as the article describes.
They know what torrents people download by IP.
anyone can figure that out: https://iknowwhatyoudownload.com/
Associating IPs with social media accounts is a step towards identifying people so they can threaten them and force them into settlements.
It’s a numbers game for the lawyers. They want as much data as they can get to identify the largest number of people so they can demand an out-of-court settlement.
The “DMing pictures” part is just an example of how they could gather that kind of data from a social network like Lemmy that can’t be so easily subpoenaed, and allows image hotlinking. I don’t have any evidence that they are doing this (yet), I just know that it would work.
Yeah, but do you publicly share every spam DM image that is shared with you? Would you even know if this happened, so you could react?
I think not as the only instance that has your ip is the one you are registered on.
One would hope…
unless you visit the instance yourself or activitypub starts including user ips
Only if you directly use their instance.
You ain’t gonna get mine, you fuckers.
Proton VPN with port forwarding turned off…Or Mullvad with quantum secure encryption…whichever you want.
Why port forwarding off specifically?
Removed by mod
But my nicotine+ connection…
Huh, how the hell does turning off port forwarding improve privacy? I am so confused, security yes but privacy.
Removed by mod
when you use port forwarding, you’re opening yourself up to a lot of malicious activity. Someone could maliciously plant some CP on your hard drive if you have port forwarding enabled.
Yeah, doesn’t everyone use a VPN in some form by now?
A lot of people still don’t and they use public wifi too. And some people with VPNs are using shitty ones like nord, express or Private internet access or surfshark
Surfshark and nord are owned by the same company and express and PIA are owned by the same company. So PIA isn’t trustworthy anymore, their court proven no-logs policy isn’t valid anymore because they got bought out since then.
Reddit is already blocking some Proton VPN IPs…
I haven’t had that problem when I use proton. Try using secure core with the browser extension.
