If from a scientific perspective, life is devoid of meaning, why is science important? It may be important to us, but why is anything important to us important at all then?
Wouldn’t it be equally meaningless?
Wouldn’t truth also be meaningless?
Wouldn’t getting worked up about this or any other comment be even more, yet paradoxically, equally meaningless?
If all of these things are meaningless, then why do anything in response?
Perhaps meaning is something that is inherently subjective because it requires purpose and value? Perhaps the most important things, such as what is essentially valuable, is something that we just decide or feel, without there being a lot of science to do around it and therefore can never be understood in objective and therefore scientific terms? Maybe science is great for understanding the known, but fails as knowing the evident yet unseen?
idk why people keep falling under the impression that science will provide them with meaning. It’s not a religion. it won’t. It’s merely a tool imo.
If you have thoughts regarding this or any other issues, please contact me at support [at] pudutopia.cl
The flaw in all of this sophomoric philosophic whinging is that it mostly tends to start off with the presupposition that all of these concepts aren’t just human constructs. The only reason anything has meaning to us is because we decided it does.
Incorrect, only because you’re still tacitly assuming that science (or anything else) must have some kind of external cosmic significance outside of human thought.
Science is important to us – or at least it ought to be – because it’s the method by which we understand how the universe works. Being important to us is all that matters, because we can’t think with the minds of anything else.
science doesn’t require meaning to have purpose. saving meaningless lives and minimizing meaningless suffering are purposes, as is understanding what we are and what we could become.
It would definitely be meaningful to me, at least for a while, but only because I care about myself.
And maybe I am. That’s actually very likely. My understanding is that meaning is what something refers to or in this context, what value, objective or desire something refers to.
This is why I was asking basically, “sure but what are those purposes for?” or “who cares that it has purpose?”.
Cause a better quality of life would be great for me, but why do I matter to begin with? Who cares if my life is better? Even if everyone else in the world did care, (including yourself) why care about them? Why should people spend half a second thinking about my well being or that of anyone, really?
There is no scientific basis for caring being a good thing or desirable just like there is no scientific basis for any kind of judgement of value. I’m just another equally irrelevant manifestation of the interaction between several forces with smaller things in a sea of infinite configurations of forces and small things just like everything and everyone else.
My entire point through this whole thread has been “you can’t science your way into what finally matters. you just know and no one can take that away from you”. (and if that thing you care about is science and nothing else, good for you and hold it dear, as you should)
Nothing we are or do has any meaning to the universe.
But our lives and actions have meaning to ourselves. And science is important for humanity. The universe doesn’t care if we develop science or not, but we care.
There’s no great universal narrative where we play any role, but we do write our own narrative for ourselves and those to come.
So if I’m understanding correctly, since we ourselves care about something, that is what provides it with meaning? Because meaning is entirely subjective? So the fact that we hold something very dear by definition makes it meaningful, regardless if anything or anyone tells us it’s meaningless? And that meaning is what keep ourselves and those who come going cause there’s no universal narrative?
idk it sounds to me that you’re suggesting that people could just find anything meaningful and it would be equally valid. Very unscientific if you ask me… :P
I don’t think that subjective means arbitrary. A book may mean different things to different people, but that doesn’t mean that one interpretation is as good as any other. Or that reason is abandoned in the process of forming a subjective idea.
If from a scientific perspective, life is devoid of meaning, why is science important? It may be important to us, but why is anything important to us important at all then?
Wouldn’t it be equally meaningless?
Wouldn’t truth also be meaningless?
Wouldn’t getting worked up about this or any other comment be even more, yet paradoxically, equally meaningless?
If all of these things are meaningless, then why do anything in response?
Perhaps meaning is something that is inherently subjective because it requires purpose and value? Perhaps the most important things, such as what is essentially valuable, is something that we just decide or feel, without there being a lot of science to do around it and therefore can never be understood in objective and therefore scientific terms? Maybe science is great for understanding the known, but fails as knowing the evident yet unseen?
idk why people keep falling under the impression that science will provide them with meaning. It’s not a religion. it won’t. It’s merely a tool imo.
If you have thoughts regarding this or any other issues, please contact me at support [at] pudutopia.cl
Or reply here. Either is fine, really.
Have a nice day! :)
The flaw in all of this sophomoric philosophic whinging is that it mostly tends to start off with the presupposition that all of these concepts aren’t just human constructs. The only reason anything has meaning to us is because we decided it does.
The purpose of life is life itself.
I’m just glad we can both agree science has no meaning. thanks.
Incorrect, only because you’re still tacitly assuming that science (or anything else) must have some kind of external cosmic significance outside of human thought.
Science is important to us – or at least it ought to be – because it’s the method by which we understand how the universe works. Being important to us is all that matters, because we can’t think with the minds of anything else.
That is exactly my point. Thanks.
science doesn’t require meaning to have purpose. saving meaningless lives and minimizing meaningless suffering are purposes, as is understanding what we are and what we could become.
why are those purposes meaningful?
would it be meaningful to you to have a drastically better quality of life for yourself and everyone else?
maybe you are defining meaningful in some weird way?
It would definitely be meaningful to me, at least for a while, but only because I care about myself.
And maybe I am. That’s actually very likely. My understanding is that meaning is what something refers to or in this context, what value, objective or desire something refers to.
This is why I was asking basically, “sure but what are those purposes for?” or “who cares that it has purpose?”.
Cause a better quality of life would be great for me, but why do I matter to begin with? Who cares if my life is better? Even if everyone else in the world did care, (including yourself) why care about them? Why should people spend half a second thinking about my well being or that of anyone, really?
There is no scientific basis for caring being a good thing or desirable just like there is no scientific basis for any kind of judgement of value. I’m just another equally irrelevant manifestation of the interaction between several forces with smaller things in a sea of infinite configurations of forces and small things just like everything and everyone else.
My entire point through this whole thread has been “you can’t science your way into what finally matters. you just know and no one can take that away from you”. (and if that thing you care about is science and nothing else, good for you and hold it dear, as you should)
Nothing we are or do has any meaning to the universe. But our lives and actions have meaning to ourselves. And science is important for humanity. The universe doesn’t care if we develop science or not, but we care. There’s no great universal narrative where we play any role, but we do write our own narrative for ourselves and those to come.
So if I’m understanding correctly, since we ourselves care about something, that is what provides it with meaning? Because meaning is entirely subjective? So the fact that we hold something very dear by definition makes it meaningful, regardless if anything or anyone tells us it’s meaningless? And that meaning is what keep ourselves and those who come going cause there’s no universal narrative?
idk it sounds to me that you’re suggesting that people could just find anything meaningful and it would be equally valid. Very unscientific if you ask me… :P
From an evolutionary standpoint, sure. As long as the species keeps going, evolution doesn’t care how.
But from our own desire of self-improvement, some paths are better than others.
better in what regard? Cause what’s improvement? Cause what’s a ‘good’ desire? You see where this is going, I’m sure.
Yes, not all people are of the same opinion on what is better. Or even that we need to improve in the first place.
The4e is always room for improvement imo.
I don’t think that subjective means arbitrary. A book may mean different things to different people, but that doesn’t mean that one interpretation is as good as any other. Or that reason is abandoned in the process of forming a subjective idea.
I like your take and couldn’t agree more.