iOS 17.2 hints at Apple moving towards letting users sideload apps from outside the App Store::undefined

  • madsen@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    112
    arrow-down
    10
    ·
    1 year ago

    Great. I’m looking forward to hearing all the Apple zealots change their tune on side-loading from "iOS is more secure because it doesn’t allow side-loading " to “side-loading is amazing, I’m so glad Apple invented it!”

    • vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      39
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      I fully expect they will make it challenging and plastered with scary warnings.

      I’m ok with that.

        • deweydecibel@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Blanket scary warnings for all apps that don’t use their app store can and will be used to dissuade their tech illiterate user base from ever daring to try something outside the garden.

          Using “security guidelines” to scare people away from using anything outside an ecosystem is more abusable than people are willing to talk about, and it happens a lot nowadays.

    • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      26
      ·
      1 year ago

      I’ve had iPhones for 15 years now. I’ve wanted side loading the entire time. It’ll be nice if I can do that without jailbreaking, but I won’t be holding my breath.

      • eee@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        26
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        This is probably the main reason why I don’t use an iphone. I was surprised I had to jailbreak for such a simple functionality when I first got my iphone 4. That was my first and last iphone.

      • Dark Arc@social.packetloss.gg
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        17
        ·
        1 year ago

        Where were you when I was arguing with some dude on Reddit about how people “buy iPhones specifically because they can’t sideload” 🙃

        Like no, there are lots of genuinely good reasons to buy an iPhone… This is not one

        • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          Thank you Tim Apple for freeing me from choice just because the same people that send gift cards to the “IRS” would likely install 85 safari toolbars if sideloading was enabled.

        • GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          But why would you do that though. It’s a phone company, I couldn’t give two shits which phone someone uses. If someone were trying to drag me into an argument about something so mundane I’d probably just agree with them so we can move past the subject.

          • Dark Arc@social.packetloss.gg
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Because constructive criticism makes the world go around. There are things I like about iOS, that’s definitely not one.

            There are also ethical issues involving the lack of sideloading. Imagine Microsoft had never allowed people to install unapproved software in Windows. There would be a lot of Chinese folks that get around the great firewall that never would’ve been able to do so. Taking sideloading away makes it very easy for the CCP to just say “don’t sell that on your store” and for that to be the end of the story.

          • helenslunch@feddit.nl
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Because which phones (and any other product, for that matter) people choose to buy ultimately affects the direction of the entire industry. See: headphone jacks.

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            People argue about OSes too. It’s petty. Use what you want. It’s your money and your time.

      • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Why not just get an Android phone instead of encouraging the company that doesn’t want you to do what you want?

    • Railcar8095@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      No no, they will say that apple does it the right way. Instead of downloading and installing a file like a peasant, you will do it through x-code, using your paid developer account only available on Apple hardware. And of course with massive limitations that apps from the app store don’t have.

      I’m only half joking, I really expect Apple to make it the most miserable experience, to them say “well, nobody is doing it!”

  • jasep@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    47
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    For everyone rejoicing in this thread, there’s no way Apple will allow this outside the EU. From the article:

    We also found references to a region lock in this API, which suggests that Apple could restrict it to specific countries. This wouldn’t make sense for MDM solutions, but it does make sense for enabling sideloading in particular countries only when required by authorities – such as in the European Union.

    I want side loading as much as the next guy, but Apple will only do the bare minimum to appease the EU regulations. Suck for those of us outside the EU.

    • maxprime@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      ·
      1 year ago

      Yeah, software is way easier to manage over borders than hardware - they already do that with their different App Stores. The comparison to USBC isn’t valid.

      However, I wonder if it would be easy enough to trick your device into thinking it’s somewhere else. Recently had to download an app from the US App Store (I am Canadian) and all it took was creating a new account and declaring my country as USA. If it was that easy, I’m sure plenty of people would be happy enough making an alt Apple ID for side loading.

      • helenslunch@feddit.nl
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        1 year ago

        I’m sure plenty of people would be happy enough making an alt Apple ID for side loading.

        Except you can’t just spin up an alt account on virtually any service anymore. I know because I always try to create anonymous accounts. These companies want your data and they need an identity to link it to, not to mention preventing bot spam. They will always want to at the very least verify your phone number via SMS, and they can detect if you’re using VoIP now. And even if you could, AAALLLLLL your data and settings would be left on the other account.

      • LordWarfire@feddit.uk
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        ·
        1 year ago

        On that line of thinking Ireland might be a good choice - they speak English and are still in the EU.

      • Crit@links.hackliberty.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        1 year ago

        Not sure the UK would be a valid option, the laws that the EU are passing now aren’t making their way to the UK anymore so if Apple wanted to be thorough they’d block it in the UK too

      • jasep@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        We don’t know yet, but the rumor mill says the setting will be geo locked. So probably not.

  • MDZA@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    26
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    As a current iPhone owner the one thing I miss about android is how easy it was to install apps from outside the play store.

    Maybe we will get a better web browser one day!

      • thechadwick@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        ·
        1 year ago

        Only safari (webkit} shells. There’s been rumors of apple preparing to open up that requirement for appstore approval, but hasn’t happened yet as far as I know.

        Honestly that, and not being able to side load, are the only things holding me from switching. Yes I could get a pixel and install graphene OS on it, but I don’t have time for that anymore and I just want a simple solution that gets support out of the box, and allows me to run the apps I want.

        • hamsterkill@lemmy.sdf.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          I’m not going so far as to say I’d switch – but I’d certainly get an iPhone and give it a try if it had sideloading/other app stores allowed (which in turn would allow other browser engines, since that’s a store limitation). Would love to see an F-Droid equivalent for iOS start up.

    • nyankas@feddit.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      30
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Yes, we will. This was also specifically demanded by the EU and has to be implemented by March 6th 2024.

      It’s being said that Google and Mozilla already have iOS-versions of Chrome and Firefox ready for this.

    • danielton@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      This is the last thing holding Google back from total domination of the web browser space. You know most people will just download Chrome when something doesn’t work, since they already use it on their PC/Mac.

      While I don’t think that holding users hostage is the best thing to do, the reality is that enough people just don’t care, and the iPhone and iPad’s popularity forces web devs to make their sites work on Safari and not just Chrome. Once a real Chrome is available on iOS, all bets are off.

      • Uglyhead@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        There was a huge gush over Chrome by developers and powerusers, influencing many many users to adopt Chrime; the same gush that happened over IE back in the day.

        Everyone developed everything for IE. Had to have it to be on a wide segment of the web. Same way with Chrome now.

        People have started falling off of Chrime /Google browsers just as they did Microsoft and IE; both times users finally realizing just how shite the company and browser were/are.

        • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          ·
          1 year ago

          People have started falling off of Chrime /Google browsers just as they did Microsoft and IE; both times users finally realizing just how shite the company and browser were/are.

          Is there actually any proof of this?

          From my quick check, Chromium-based browsers have a very steady market share. Firefox has remained exactly the same. Safari has went up 0.8% and is obviously going to drop substantially when other browser engines are allowed on iOS.

          Sure, Chrome has went down by 2%, but Opera and Edge have captured that. And they’re both just chrome under the bonnet.

          • danielton@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            Yeah, I know maybe like two other people who use Firefox. Everybody else uses Chrome. And it’s been that way for the last decade or so.

            I still prefer Firefox, but I worry about its future because most people, including web developers, just don’t care.

        • danielton@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          Development of IE stagnated after Microsoft put Netscape out of business, because Microsoft got complacent, until Mozilla resurrected the remains of Netscape and saved the web. Then Chrome came along and Google convinced almost everybody to switch to it, including competing browsers like Opera. Chrome was originally based on Safari’s WebKit (a fork of Konqueror’s rendering engine KHTML), but then Google forked it (Blink) so they’d maintain control of it.

          From what I’ve heard, most web devs only test on Chrome since every browser other than Firefox and Safari is based on it. And nobody seemed to care until very recently, because they didn’t think a browser based on an open source project could possibly be a problem.

          I’m honestly not surprised any of this happened, and I stick to Firefox and Safari myself, but I do worry about the ramifications of getting a real Chrome on the iPhone and iPad. I never liked Chrome and don’t want to be forced to use it.

          • Uglyhead@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            After Google EEE’d chromium it was all over. A perfect bait & switch by google after everyone switched to chromium bases. MS fumbled the bag and now Goog is doing the same thing. People generally don’t like to be forced to do anything; and I’m with you and them.

        • 4am@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          It’s reskinned safari. Same with Firefox. Apple doesn’t allow alternative browser engines currently, you have to use their WebKit frame to display the actual pages.

          This is what is changing per the EU’s ruling, and why browser extensions from the desktop versions will start to work on iPhones.

    • helenslunch@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      1 year ago

      This will be huge.

      It won’t be really. Android already has sideloading but the vast majority don’t even know you can download stuff outside of the Play Store.

  • vin@lemmynsfw.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Can’t wait to see how this will be an implementation designed to be crippled, like they did with web push (why can’t i enable non silent notifications?)

    • Flaky@iusearchlinux.fyi
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      1 year ago

      You’re right on the money. They’re trying to region lock it. Unlikely that US and possibly UK customers will get it.

      We also found references to a region lock in this API, which suggests that Apple could restrict it to specific countries. This wouldn’t make sense for MDM solutions, but it does make sense for enabling sideloading in particular countries only when required by authorities – such as in the European Union.

  • Tiger Jerusalem@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    If sideloading happen I will buy a spanking new iPhone 15 Pro. It’s the one big thing that is missing that Android has

  • M500@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    7
    ·
    1 year ago

    Finally! I have been interesting in developing some apps for personal use, but I don’t want to pay a developer fee and go through the App Store. It’s so much hassle.

    • KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Kinda? They have to do it soon, and betas are where they would do it. They wouldn’t just make a “last day possible” update, that would just be bad development practice. Imagine if they were delayed.