I recently switched my server over to running Plex and Home Assistant in Docker. I like the ease of transfer (just move my compose file and one directory where I have stored all the configs and I’m set) as well as the simple permissions management to give access to directories.

I have only used Fedora briefly, but I am considering it instead of my usual openSUSE because it is “officially supported” for the Framework 13 I have on order. I saw the immutable versions and the idea seems cool though I don’t really understand what new I would need to learn or really what benefits it would have.

Is the concept overkill for a single-user laptop?

  • guitarsarereal@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    14
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Immutability is useful from a sysadmin standpoint because it solves a couple problems. It’s a little easier to secure a system if you can know that, in fact, files outside the home directory have not been modified, and also, it’s a little easier to keep systems running because programs can’t just shit on each other’s files etc.

    Unless these two are problems for you, you’re signing up to re-learn how to use Linux, and tbh not very elegantly, for basically no real gains at this time. Immutability has potential as a concept, but Red Hat’s approach is super weird and not very efficient. They have a tool that allows you to manage filesystem trees, and then they extended this tool with RPM to allow you to compose custom filesystem trees at install/upgrade time. This approach, in my experience, is shockingly inefficient if you need to add any custom packages to your base tree and you install updates with any frequency.

    If you’re a sysadmin rolling out updates to workstations maybe once a month, these aren’t really issues, but for daily use, it didn’t seem worth it to me just yet, especially since we don’t really have any neat separation of code and config like you get with Docker. You can’t just zip up your home directory and move it to a new Silverblue installation and have your user back yet (there’s work in this direction with systemd-homed, likely once it’s good enough this will become standard, but also, that’s not an “immutability” feature). I believe /etc is mounted rw, which is a step in this direction, but until lots of stateful stuff gets moved out of /etc that isn’t going to be portable in the same way a Docker config is.

    EDIT For a comparison of a different approach to immutability that includes a different bundle of tradeoffs, you can also look at OpenSUSE’s MicroOS. The TL;DR is that it’s easier to customize the base system, but it locks you into btrfs and it’s not as robust overall – https://www.ypsidanger.com/comparing-opensuse-microos-to-fedora-silverblue-37/ https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/understanding-differences-between-rpm-ostree-and-opensuses-transactional-update/84289/3

    • thayer@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I just wanted to point out that you pretty much can just tarball your user directory and drop it into a fresh system. If you embrace the Flatpak and container-based workflow, it’s incredibly easy to be up and running in no time. Obviously, containers and flatpaks aren’t unique to image-based distros, but are perhaps less common in traditional distros.

      Sure, you’ll need to add a printer back, or reconnect to wifi networks, but your user and/or dev environment will carry over, and with a couple of commands, any package overlays and flatpaks will be reinstalled and ready to go.

      I found flatpaks and containerization to be the only real learning curve with Silverblue, and only because I hadn’t used them previously. Compared to the learning curve and unorthodox approach of NixOS, Silverblue itself is as easy as using vanilla Fedora Workstation.

      • guitarsarereal@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        I mean, is this true in any way that hasn’t been true of Linux since nearly forever? You can always put your /home folder on a separate partition, install a new system, and as long as you make sure the UID of your new user matches the UID of the old user, the process is exactly the same. Just reinstall your apps and you’re good to go. I used to do this to keep configuration/data between reinstalls. EDIT – as opposed to a genuinely stateless user config, as systemd-homed is working towards

        • Railcar8095@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          There difference is, to flatpaks and containers are in home, so you keep those even after a fresh install of you keep home.

          It’s freaking great, specially in a work machine, to reinstall after breaking something and be able to just continue almost as if nothing had happened.