it’s not any less problematic if that’s the case because it still assumes people taking the escalator do it because they want to, rather than having like a limp or something. that sort of normalized stigma isn’t good.
I think I disagree with you on this one. With obesity reaching pandemic levels internationally, I think forcing simple healthy choices is actually a great solution that helps a larger majority than those who may be stigmatized by using the escalator (for what may or may not be a visible reason to choose the escalator). At the very least it increases awareness of those healthy choices.
if obesity is reaching a pandemic level, it is obviously no longer treatable with “why don’t you walk up the stairs for once, fatso?”. if a majority of people are obese it is no longer a question of lifestyle choices.
Exactly. Go to a grocery store and load up on unhealthy shit, then go back to the same store and load up on healthy shit. The price difference is insane, especially when considering shelf life.
I buy frozen vegetables mostly, but I could feed my family a whole lot cheaper on cheap TV dinners.
Now we have (at least in my part of the US) dollar generals popping up in food deserts with the lowest quality shit on the planet. In the neighborhood I grew up in, most people didn’t have cars and the nearest grocery store was 30 miles away. That community is surviving on dollar general groceries now. When I was a kid we bought brown beans and white rice in bulk and lived mostly on that. We drank powdered milk.
When my brother and I refused to eat beans and rice, my mom would color it with food coloring to get us excited. “Who wants BLUE RICE AND BEANS?!” “WE DO! WE DO!”
If we had grown up in the world today, we’d probably be struggling with obesity.
“Go to a grocery store and load up on unhealthy shit, then go back to the same store and load up on healthy shit. The price difference is insane, especially when considering shelf life.”
This intrigues me, and definitely isn’t my experience. Do the same thing in my country and you come out with a comparable amount of food, perhaps influencing the choice element I describe above.
One commentary I’ve come across about American food is that the shitty stuff is intentionally priced so cheaply as to make the good stuff seem insanely priced. My experience above suggests that this might have a grain of truth to it. If willing to share, how do you feel about this commentary (i.e., what do you think of it)?
I think it has to do with the healthier stuff having a shorter shelf life more than anything. They end up throwing a lot of it out and that probably has something to do with it being priced higher.
I can’t say for sure, that’s just a guess. The stuff that doesn’t expire for 3 or 4 years is naturally going to be a safer bet than the stuff that expires in a week.
America is huge too, and moving stuff around the country isn’t cheap.
I’m just an idiot from the middle of nowhere spending a fortune so my kids can eat healthier. We have broccoli or asparagus almost every night (mostly broccoli because I don’t buy asparagus frozen), fresh fruits, some chicken, fish, or pork, and it is insane what my grocery bill is every month. I also have a big family though. I have 4 children living at home, so there are 6 of us.
That’s super interesting. For me, healthier stuff is expensive but affordable, so buying in balance is easier. It goes bad, sure, but ppl seem gravitate to the fresh stuff? So it sells.
In my experience, long preserved foods are typically seen as like, in case “I need a meal on a Wednesday.” Just a very stark difference in experience/culture that is absolutely intriguing to me, I don’t know if I have anything valuable to add haha.
I’m Canadian so I know what you mean about moving things across the country (much of our winter veggies are Californian or Mexican).
Big family or no, that’s awesome - it’s expensive enough raising a family, so just a wholehearted good on ya! Food is hugely personal (for obvious reasons), and we’re exactly the type of idiots caught up in the chaos of making life work. Thanks for sharing and I hope you have a happy, healthy year 😊
Then we likely disagree on the cause of the obesity pandemic. In my view, obesity is a choice moderated by increasingly inactive lifestyles, high volumes of low quality food, and genetics (obviously not a choice).
Add in contributing factors of affordability, general apathy towards nutrition, ready availability of food, grabbing food for all occasions (stress/joy/boredom), and corporations (esp. major corporations; food engineering for addictiveness and flavour, rampant marketing, and low quality offerings to bolster profits and scale).
So in my view, still largely long-term lifestyle choices, with corporate influence definitely playing a part.
But you seem to think differently, what do you believe I’m not seeing?
You make a great point - the built environment is absolutely a contributor!
I would add attitude too. I know ppl who will not do a 40 minute walk, even if it’s a viable option. “Why not Uber, that’s sooo faaar” is still a choice haha
I’ve had some great conversations because of this and that there are many cultural/societal elements that I both do and don’t agree with. I’ve learned that others don’t share my opinion and I’m okay with that 😊 I hope you have a great 2025!
you list it all, but i think the things you class as “contributing factors” are more significant, because it would explain the numbers better. i just think that it’s statistically improbable that that many people would choose sedentary life. it doesn’t match with my perception of my surroundings.
a parallel: if some people have better teeth then average, it is probably because they care about their teeth. but if the majority of a community has better teeth than the rest of the country, there’s probably something in the water.
That’s fair, I can see why. My surroundings have a higher rate of knowingly sedentary behavior/wild overcomsumption, which affects my bias. I like your analogy.
I still think personal autonomy has an impact. I’m a food nerd and in my experience the average person does a terrible job of assessing energy in (ooh donut) versus energy out (one calorie is harder to burn than ppl like to admit). Hell, it took me 15 years to figure out.
So maybe not a conscious choice of a sedentary life, as much as the lack of understanding or awareness of how that unintentional choice affects them (plus all the factors we’ve discussed).
But this is just my two cents, I’m no pro lol thanks for digging into this with me 🙂
Surely those people can disregard a picture on the floor, no? Anyone with any form of disability has to deal with far more nonsense than this (revolving doors, for example).
it’s not about the people who have to take the escalator. it’s about what people who have the choice think about them.
if you’ve ever been mad at someone who parked in a handicap spot only to then get out and have seemingly nothing be visibly wrong with them, you know the thoughts i mean.
I’m only mad if they don’t have handicap signage on their vehicle, because a lot of disabilities aren’t immediately apparent. For example, my sister-in-law has been diagnosed w/ POTS, but can walk unassisted over moderate distances and frequently doesn’t bother w/ a wheelchair (leaning on a cart is usually good enough). However, some days it’s much worse, and getting back to the car can be a real struggle. She usually carries a pop-up stool in case she needs a rest, so that would be the only indicator (and hers is pretty compact and not super obvious at what it is).
I’m pretty sure nobody actually cares who rides an escalator, and if they do, they could see a cane and quickly conclude why they made that choice.
but then you understand it, because some people get really mad at people with signage that don’t have visible disability. and the illusion of choice presented on this picture is part of that mindset.
analysing things like this is never about the consequences for a single person, but the consequences on the thought patterns of the society that puts these up and have them in their mind while going about their day.
if someone hurls a misguided insult at you for not taking the stairs, no biggie. if society at large quietly shuns you for it, that’s not gonna be good for your mental health in the long run.
Sure, some people are douchebags. I highly doubt that is any kind of majority, just a very vocal minority.
I doubt most people would even look at this sign, and most of those that do probably won’t care one way or another if a visibly fit person takes the escalator. They might snigger a bit to their friends after (hey, I saw a dumb westerner taking the escalator, they obviously don’t care about health), but if this really is Korea, nobody will say or do anything about it, even if it’s someone they know.
I may be completely misguided here, but that’s my take from having been married to a Korean (moved from Korea after finishing K-12) for over 10 years (assuming this is Korea; the white text certainly isn’t Korean, but I can’t make out the black text). Nobody says anything to strangers in public, and especially not something that could embarrass them…
in Scandinavian culture there’s this thing called Janteloven. it’s from a Danish book about a guy that moves to a small town and is basically silently bullied by its population. it’s related to tall poppy syndrome in that it describes how society does “othering”. basically, if you are in any way different you will become an outcast, not because anyone does anything to you, but because nobody does anything for you.
if you’re a tourist it’s whatever. if you live there it can be soul crushing.
Yeah, I can certainly see that. I live in an area with a strong local demographic, and if you’re different, you won’t fit it. Everyone goes to the same church, does similar activities, etc, and if you don’t fit in to that, you’re essentially alone in a sea of people.
People with meaningful physical disabilities that make it borderline impossible to climb up stairs account for… A very small slice of the population. The rest of the population should be bullied into a lifestyle that improves physical and mental health.
Correct, I did say that, and I’m not taking it back. Actually being healthy is better than pretending it’s fine to be fat. If everywhere you go, people tolerate your lard, you’ll forget the increased issues that come along with being overweight.
you know something interesting? your way is the norm. most fat people are ashamed all the time. the fat acceptance movement is not about saying it’s fine to be fat, it’s about saying that you, fat person, are not less of a human being for being overweight. the movement exists because the bullying is the default, and it is driving people into depression.
As a fat person I was able to live 99% of my life never thinking about or realizing I was fat. Able to live in denial, I always thought I was just “chubby” despite being 75 pounds too heavy for my health.
So I don’t buy that yours is a generalization one can safely make. You are arguing in defense of the fat acceptance movement here by pointing out that it’s not an absolutist thing, so you ought to also understand that despite someone using a word like “bully” it doesn’t mean everyone not supporting that movement wants actual bullying to occur. I certainly read what they wrote more tongue in cheek. I lived a decade as a fat person without even knowing it. A lot of people probably are in the same boat. When I visit family everyone looks fat AF to me but if I’d never moved away I certainly would see them and myself differently. I suspect most of those folks think they are “chubby” and are usually able to avoid feeling shame about it.
It would be nice if the conversation could be about feeling better, instead of shame about aesthetics… If I realized I could feel MUCH better 24/7 for years I would’ve lived my twenties very differently. And obviously shame wouldn’t have been helpful or necessary to get me to see that.
just so we’re not having two conversations on the same topic, i believe my other response to you to be relevant here as well.
this is an interesting perspective though, and one i hadn’t considered simply because i’ve never seen a community of only overweight people.
i am used to seeing a lot of pushback to the fat acceptance movement from people who do not read past the headline, and that’s understandable because the initial read is provocative, probably intentionally so. but what else can i read into “bullying”?
remember my situation here, every overweight person i know is painfully aware of their weight, and i believe that if bullying worked they would no longer be overweight. same thing with motivational stuff. imo what these people need is acceptance, because society assigns them lower self-worth so they don’t feel like it’s worth it for them to take care of themselves.
in the situation you describe though? it sounds like the external factors affect the entire community. the obesity goes up not because mental health declines, but because the norm changes. it certainly sounds unusual. i think societal pressure at that point would also lead to othering, since you’re then declaring that a particular geographic area is doing something wrong… i’m reminded of the tooth thing from an earlier comment again.
Thanks for the response and sorry for the dual reply. What part of the world are you from? I’m American and we’re mostly obese here. My experience is that in cities probably 30% of people are noticeably overweight but anywhere outside a city is more like 75%, no joke. It’s gotten worse since I was a kid for sure.
The kind of “bullying” that is never okay is making people (especially children) feel bad for something they never chose. The “good” “bullying” would be better feedback at doctor visits and things like these floor signs. It’s obviously a touchy subject and a difficult thing to address so I’m not flush with examples.
Mainly I just wish my doctors had seemed concerned before I had “elevated” blood pressure at age 30. And mind you, even then the only reason I got the message was mention of possible medication for it. I know for sure in a lot of American families, such medication is seen as normal and not concerning. It is in my family, I just go against the grain in a lot of ways so for me that was a wakeup call.
I was directly shamed for being fat so infrequently that I cannot even think of a specific example. I think I wrote it off as people just being mean. Being male, I know I’d naturally get less of that, but still. I marvel to this day how I could’ve looked and felt like that and still thought “meh, eventually I’d like to lose 15 pounds” when I truly needed to lose 65 minimum.
i assumed american, partly from the .world and partly from the difference in experience. i’m from rural scandinavia, basically in the mid-point of the peninsula. we are also “dealing” with what doctors are calling an obesity epidemic, as is most of europe. in quotes because what’s being suggested is basically that sign.
i am also a much larger than the average individual, not quite to the point that i hit my head on doorjambs but my hairline definitely suggests some scraping has taken place. when i was in school in the 90s, the teachers were so worried about some of us being obese that me and a few others got “extra motor training”, which basically boiled down to an extra PE session every week. my parents tried to get me to start every hobby under the sun, so to speak, and me being interested in “indoor activities” made them feel like they failed, which of course spilled over onto me. so i’ve always been big, and i’ve always been made aware of this fact.
now, in regards to bullying, i’m going to drop a word, and depending on your degree of redditorness you may or may not disappear like a staked vampire:
brace...
microaggression
still with me? ok, so.
a doctor saying “you should try to lose weight” is not helpful. it is a statement of fact, yes, but it gives no information. a doctor running tests and saying “these things are off-balance it your body, here’s something we/you can try to fix them” is useful. a doctor not wanting to do those tests because it is clear that the patient needs to lose weight is actively harmful. doctors have missed acute heart problems and cancers because of that. and yet it is common. this is is usually what’s sloppily referred to as a microagression: a (possibly subconscious) act that from one perspective may seem neutral or even helpful, but from the other is detrimental to mental health. the floor sign seems like a good idea if you have the sensibility that “obese people are lazy and showing them this will motivate them”, but with the mindset “obese people are trying already and always telling them that they are not doing enough will ruin them in the long run” it’s just yet another thing on the pile of othering and self-loathing. when that is done consistently towards a group of people, i would classify that the same as the sort of bullying that children do.
now, what our conversation here has shown is that both of these things can be true at once, and that one strategy or the other isn’t the “right” one. asia in general and korea in particular (again, if this is korea) also has a huuuuge thing about normative culture and othering. so while this may wake some people up in your community, i think the effect over there is that it would do more harm than good.
as for the tooth thing, i brought it up in another comment thread about the source of the obesity epidemic. basically when the number of affected people starts getting too big, individual choice can no longer explain the statistic. my example was the discovery of flouride’s effect on dental health, which was due to research on the teeth of a community in rural colorado which had, much much better dental health than the rest of the country. turns out, lots of fluoride in the ground there. if only a few people have good teeth, they are probably careful about their teeth. if most of them do, it’s most likely out of their hands.
I agree. I used to live in the south and knew I was chubby but had no idea I was fat until I lost weight and moved away (not a coincidence).
We need less coddling of fat people. I know most fat people are aware they are, but if you think your concern level should be a 3 when your doctor thinks it’s an 8, that’s a huge fucking problem.
I know people in their thirties who aren’t concerned that they’re obese and diabetic from their diet decisions which could be reversed if they just realized the severity of their circumstance. They just live in a world where it’s rare to get any feedback about it, and sadly a lot of doctors don’t even say that much to them about it from I can tell.
The idea that there are people advocating against extremely fat people having to pay for two seats on planes is a batshit example of the direction we need to go essentially opposite of.
We literally let kids be traumatized for life by bullies and do not much to stop it, yet somehow full-grown adults are so fragile they supposedly cannot handle any subtle implication that they are fat and need to live healthier…
We literally let kids be traumatized for life by bullies and do not much to stop it, yet somehow full-grown adults are so fragile they supposedly cannot handle any subtle implication that they are fat and need to live healthier…
i think those two things may be more closely related that you think…
you’re right, i should have. i hate when people do that, don’t know why i decided to be cryptic.
if we ignore for a second the role of industry in this whole thing, which is significant, people don’t just “become” sedentary and obese. eating can become a coping mechanism to deal with external trauma, and the way to regulate coping mechanisms is not to add more trauma. getting people to a healthier mental state is a good way to get them to care more about their bodies.
The “bullying” being advocated for here, to me, meant “not coddling anymore”. I’m not advocating for actually bullying anyone. I probably read the comment this way because I’ve known people to use the word in a more lighthearted way, such as “I bullied you into giving me a ride” meaning “I asked you last minute and you felt obligated (sorry)”.
In the context of this floor marking, I thought the idea was to not shy fully away from ever mentioning the topic. I am certainly not advocating for actual bullying. What I was getting at was that children develop hangups for life due to school bullies and practically no one cares. My teachers and bus drivers did little to stop me from getting bullied. That feels weird coming from the same society that is now so afraid an adult might feel fat sometimes, that they rarely talk about it. I know that some fat people get a ton of flak over a lifetime and that’s shitty, but I don’t think this floor signage is even close to that flak.
it’s not any less problematic if that’s the case because it still assumes people taking the escalator do it because they want to, rather than having like a limp or something. that sort of normalized stigma isn’t good.
Don’t normalize stigma, normalize sigma
Obviously I’m obese because I decided to be born with a spinal defect. I should make better choices.
That’s the worst excuse for being obese I ever heard. Does a spinal defect prevent you from eating less food?
Have you tried walking up the stairs to fix your defect
No
What about yoga and positive thinking? /s
Yeah… no.
I think I disagree with you on this one. With obesity reaching pandemic levels internationally, I think forcing simple healthy choices is actually a great solution that helps a larger majority than those who may be stigmatized by using the escalator (for what may or may not be a visible reason to choose the escalator). At the very least it increases awareness of those healthy choices.
Still curious what the speech bubble says though…
if obesity is reaching a pandemic level, it is obviously no longer treatable with “why don’t you walk up the stairs for once, fatso?”. if a majority of people are obese it is no longer a question of lifestyle choices.
That’s the thing, obesity isn’t as much of a problem in Korea.
Something is working.
they also have massive problems with body image related depression.
Exactly. Go to a grocery store and load up on unhealthy shit, then go back to the same store and load up on healthy shit. The price difference is insane, especially when considering shelf life.
I buy frozen vegetables mostly, but I could feed my family a whole lot cheaper on cheap TV dinners.
Now we have (at least in my part of the US) dollar generals popping up in food deserts with the lowest quality shit on the planet. In the neighborhood I grew up in, most people didn’t have cars and the nearest grocery store was 30 miles away. That community is surviving on dollar general groceries now. When I was a kid we bought brown beans and white rice in bulk and lived mostly on that. We drank powdered milk.
When my brother and I refused to eat beans and rice, my mom would color it with food coloring to get us excited. “Who wants BLUE RICE AND BEANS?!” “WE DO! WE DO!”
If we had grown up in the world today, we’d probably be struggling with obesity.
“Go to a grocery store and load up on unhealthy shit, then go back to the same store and load up on healthy shit. The price difference is insane, especially when considering shelf life.”
This intrigues me, and definitely isn’t my experience. Do the same thing in my country and you come out with a comparable amount of food, perhaps influencing the choice element I describe above.
One commentary I’ve come across about American food is that the shitty stuff is intentionally priced so cheaply as to make the good stuff seem insanely priced. My experience above suggests that this might have a grain of truth to it. If willing to share, how do you feel about this commentary (i.e., what do you think of it)?
I think it has to do with the healthier stuff having a shorter shelf life more than anything. They end up throwing a lot of it out and that probably has something to do with it being priced higher.
I can’t say for sure, that’s just a guess. The stuff that doesn’t expire for 3 or 4 years is naturally going to be a safer bet than the stuff that expires in a week.
America is huge too, and moving stuff around the country isn’t cheap.
I’m just an idiot from the middle of nowhere spending a fortune so my kids can eat healthier. We have broccoli or asparagus almost every night (mostly broccoli because I don’t buy asparagus frozen), fresh fruits, some chicken, fish, or pork, and it is insane what my grocery bill is every month. I also have a big family though. I have 4 children living at home, so there are 6 of us.
That’s super interesting. For me, healthier stuff is expensive but affordable, so buying in balance is easier. It goes bad, sure, but ppl seem gravitate to the fresh stuff? So it sells.
In my experience, long preserved foods are typically seen as like, in case “I need a meal on a Wednesday.” Just a very stark difference in experience/culture that is absolutely intriguing to me, I don’t know if I have anything valuable to add haha.
I’m Canadian so I know what you mean about moving things across the country (much of our winter veggies are Californian or Mexican).
Big family or no, that’s awesome - it’s expensive enough raising a family, so just a wholehearted good on ya! Food is hugely personal (for obvious reasons), and we’re exactly the type of idiots caught up in the chaos of making life work. Thanks for sharing and I hope you have a happy, healthy year 😊
Then we likely disagree on the cause of the obesity pandemic. In my view, obesity is a choice moderated by increasingly inactive lifestyles, high volumes of low quality food, and genetics (obviously not a choice).
Add in contributing factors of affordability, general apathy towards nutrition, ready availability of food, grabbing food for all occasions (stress/joy/boredom), and corporations (esp. major corporations; food engineering for addictiveness and flavour, rampant marketing, and low quality offerings to bolster profits and scale).
So in my view, still largely long-term lifestyle choices, with corporate influence definitely playing a part.
But you seem to think differently, what do you believe I’m not seeing?
increasingly inactive lifestyle are caused by inaccessible cities, car reliance, and multiple-job wage slavery
no one just up and decides “gee whilikers im going to start having an inactive lifestyle” one day lol
You make a great point - the built environment is absolutely a contributor!
I would add attitude too. I know ppl who will not do a 40 minute walk, even if it’s a viable option. “Why not Uber, that’s sooo faaar” is still a choice haha
i wouldn’t 🙂
Haha I know!
I’ve had some great conversations because of this and that there are many cultural/societal elements that I both do and don’t agree with. I’ve learned that others don’t share my opinion and I’m okay with that 😊 I hope you have a great 2025!
you list it all, but i think the things you class as “contributing factors” are more significant, because it would explain the numbers better. i just think that it’s statistically improbable that that many people would choose sedentary life. it doesn’t match with my perception of my surroundings.
a parallel: if some people have better teeth then average, it is probably because they care about their teeth. but if the majority of a community has better teeth than the rest of the country, there’s probably something in the water.
That’s fair, I can see why. My surroundings have a higher rate of knowingly sedentary behavior/wild overcomsumption, which affects my bias. I like your analogy.
I still think personal autonomy has an impact. I’m a food nerd and in my experience the average person does a terrible job of assessing energy in (ooh donut) versus energy out (one calorie is harder to burn than ppl like to admit). Hell, it took me 15 years to figure out.
So maybe not a conscious choice of a sedentary life, as much as the lack of understanding or awareness of how that unintentional choice affects them (plus all the factors we’ve discussed).
But this is just my two cents, I’m no pro lol thanks for digging into this with me 🙂
Yeah as a disabled person seeing that would kind of suck.
Surely those people can disregard a picture on the floor, no? Anyone with any form of disability has to deal with far more nonsense than this (revolving doors, for example).
it’s not about the people who have to take the escalator. it’s about what people who have the choice think about them.
if you’ve ever been mad at someone who parked in a handicap spot only to then get out and have seemingly nothing be visibly wrong with them, you know the thoughts i mean.
I’m only mad if they don’t have handicap signage on their vehicle, because a lot of disabilities aren’t immediately apparent. For example, my sister-in-law has been diagnosed w/ POTS, but can walk unassisted over moderate distances and frequently doesn’t bother w/ a wheelchair (leaning on a cart is usually good enough). However, some days it’s much worse, and getting back to the car can be a real struggle. She usually carries a pop-up stool in case she needs a rest, so that would be the only indicator (and hers is pretty compact and not super obvious at what it is).
I’m pretty sure nobody actually cares who rides an escalator, and if they do, they could see a cane and quickly conclude why they made that choice.
but then you understand it, because some people get really mad at people with signage that don’t have visible disability. and the illusion of choice presented on this picture is part of that mindset.
analysing things like this is never about the consequences for a single person, but the consequences on the thought patterns of the society that puts these up and have them in their mind while going about their day.
if someone hurls a misguided insult at you for not taking the stairs, no biggie. if society at large quietly shuns you for it, that’s not gonna be good for your mental health in the long run.
Sure, some people are douchebags. I highly doubt that is any kind of majority, just a very vocal minority.
I doubt most people would even look at this sign, and most of those that do probably won’t care one way or another if a visibly fit person takes the escalator. They might snigger a bit to their friends after (hey, I saw a dumb westerner taking the escalator, they obviously don’t care about health), but if this really is Korea, nobody will say or do anything about it, even if it’s someone they know.
I may be completely misguided here, but that’s my take from having been married to a Korean (moved from Korea after finishing K-12) for over 10 years (assuming this is Korea; the white text certainly isn’t Korean, but I can’t make out the black text). Nobody says anything to strangers in public, and especially not something that could embarrass them…
in Scandinavian culture there’s this thing called Janteloven. it’s from a Danish book about a guy that moves to a small town and is basically silently bullied by its population. it’s related to tall poppy syndrome in that it describes how society does “othering”. basically, if you are in any way different you will become an outcast, not because anyone does anything to you, but because nobody does anything for you.
if you’re a tourist it’s whatever. if you live there it can be soul crushing.
Yeah, I can certainly see that. I live in an area with a strong local demographic, and if you’re different, you won’t fit it. Everyone goes to the same church, does similar activities, etc, and if you don’t fit in to that, you’re essentially alone in a sea of people.
I don’t have any disabilities and I still hate revolving doors so much.
Yeah, fuck me for using a cane, I’m such a big fat fatty and want to be fat.
People with meaningful physical disabilities that make it borderline impossible to climb up stairs account for… A very small slice of the population. The rest of the population should be bullied into a lifestyle that improves physical and mental health.
i’m sorry did you say bullied into a lifestyle that promotes physical and mental health?
Correct, I did say that, and I’m not taking it back. Actually being healthy is better than pretending it’s fine to be fat. If everywhere you go, people tolerate your lard, you’ll forget the increased issues that come along with being overweight.
you know something interesting? your way is the norm. most fat people are ashamed all the time. the fat acceptance movement is not about saying it’s fine to be fat, it’s about saying that you, fat person, are not less of a human being for being overweight. the movement exists because the bullying is the default, and it is driving people into depression.
As a fat person I was able to live 99% of my life never thinking about or realizing I was fat. Able to live in denial, I always thought I was just “chubby” despite being 75 pounds too heavy for my health.
So I don’t buy that yours is a generalization one can safely make. You are arguing in defense of the fat acceptance movement here by pointing out that it’s not an absolutist thing, so you ought to also understand that despite someone using a word like “bully” it doesn’t mean everyone not supporting that movement wants actual bullying to occur. I certainly read what they wrote more tongue in cheek. I lived a decade as a fat person without even knowing it. A lot of people probably are in the same boat. When I visit family everyone looks fat AF to me but if I’d never moved away I certainly would see them and myself differently. I suspect most of those folks think they are “chubby” and are usually able to avoid feeling shame about it.
It would be nice if the conversation could be about feeling better, instead of shame about aesthetics… If I realized I could feel MUCH better 24/7 for years I would’ve lived my twenties very differently. And obviously shame wouldn’t have been helpful or necessary to get me to see that.
just so we’re not having two conversations on the same topic, i believe my other response to you to be relevant here as well.
this is an interesting perspective though, and one i hadn’t considered simply because i’ve never seen a community of only overweight people.
i am used to seeing a lot of pushback to the fat acceptance movement from people who do not read past the headline, and that’s understandable because the initial read is provocative, probably intentionally so. but what else can i read into “bullying”?
remember my situation here, every overweight person i know is painfully aware of their weight, and i believe that if bullying worked they would no longer be overweight. same thing with motivational stuff. imo what these people need is acceptance, because society assigns them lower self-worth so they don’t feel like it’s worth it for them to take care of themselves.
in the situation you describe though? it sounds like the external factors affect the entire community. the obesity goes up not because mental health declines, but because the norm changes. it certainly sounds unusual. i think societal pressure at that point would also lead to othering, since you’re then declaring that a particular geographic area is doing something wrong… i’m reminded of the tooth thing from an earlier comment again.
Thanks for the response and sorry for the dual reply. What part of the world are you from? I’m American and we’re mostly obese here. My experience is that in cities probably 30% of people are noticeably overweight but anywhere outside a city is more like 75%, no joke. It’s gotten worse since I was a kid for sure.
The kind of “bullying” that is never okay is making people (especially children) feel bad for something they never chose. The “good” “bullying” would be better feedback at doctor visits and things like these floor signs. It’s obviously a touchy subject and a difficult thing to address so I’m not flush with examples.
Mainly I just wish my doctors had seemed concerned before I had “elevated” blood pressure at age 30. And mind you, even then the only reason I got the message was mention of possible medication for it. I know for sure in a lot of American families, such medication is seen as normal and not concerning. It is in my family, I just go against the grain in a lot of ways so for me that was a wakeup call.
I was directly shamed for being fat so infrequently that I cannot even think of a specific example. I think I wrote it off as people just being mean. Being male, I know I’d naturally get less of that, but still. I marvel to this day how I could’ve looked and felt like that and still thought “meh, eventually I’d like to lose 15 pounds” when I truly needed to lose 65 minimum.
Edit: meant to ask-- what tooth thing?
i assumed american, partly from the .world and partly from the difference in experience. i’m from rural scandinavia, basically in the mid-point of the peninsula. we are also “dealing” with what doctors are calling an obesity epidemic, as is most of europe. in quotes because what’s being suggested is basically that sign.
i am also a much larger than the average individual, not quite to the point that i hit my head on doorjambs but my hairline definitely suggests some scraping has taken place. when i was in school in the 90s, the teachers were so worried about some of us being obese that me and a few others got “extra motor training”, which basically boiled down to an extra PE session every week. my parents tried to get me to start every hobby under the sun, so to speak, and me being interested in “indoor activities” made them feel like they failed, which of course spilled over onto me. so i’ve always been big, and i’ve always been made aware of this fact.
now, in regards to bullying, i’m going to drop a word, and depending on your degree of redditorness you may or may not disappear like a staked vampire:
brace...
microaggression
still with me? ok, so.
a doctor saying “you should try to lose weight” is not helpful. it is a statement of fact, yes, but it gives no information. a doctor running tests and saying “these things are off-balance it your body, here’s something we/you can try to fix them” is useful. a doctor not wanting to do those tests because it is clear that the patient needs to lose weight is actively harmful. doctors have missed acute heart problems and cancers because of that. and yet it is common. this is is usually what’s sloppily referred to as a microagression: a (possibly subconscious) act that from one perspective may seem neutral or even helpful, but from the other is detrimental to mental health. the floor sign seems like a good idea if you have the sensibility that “obese people are lazy and showing them this will motivate them”, but with the mindset “obese people are trying already and always telling them that they are not doing enough will ruin them in the long run” it’s just yet another thing on the pile of othering and self-loathing. when that is done consistently towards a group of people, i would classify that the same as the sort of bullying that children do.
now, what our conversation here has shown is that both of these things can be true at once, and that one strategy or the other isn’t the “right” one. asia in general and korea in particular (again, if this is korea) also has a huuuuge thing about normative culture and othering. so while this may wake some people up in your community, i think the effect over there is that it would do more harm than good.
as for the tooth thing, i brought it up in another comment thread about the source of the obesity epidemic. basically when the number of affected people starts getting too big, individual choice can no longer explain the statistic. my example was the discovery of flouride’s effect on dental health, which was due to research on the teeth of a community in rural colorado which had, much much better dental health than the rest of the country. turns out, lots of fluoride in the ground there. if only a few people have good teeth, they are probably careful about their teeth. if most of them do, it’s most likely out of their hands.
sorry that got really long…
I agree. I used to live in the south and knew I was chubby but had no idea I was fat until I lost weight and moved away (not a coincidence).
We need less coddling of fat people. I know most fat people are aware they are, but if you think your concern level should be a 3 when your doctor thinks it’s an 8, that’s a huge fucking problem.
I know people in their thirties who aren’t concerned that they’re obese and diabetic from their diet decisions which could be reversed if they just realized the severity of their circumstance. They just live in a world where it’s rare to get any feedback about it, and sadly a lot of doctors don’t even say that much to them about it from I can tell.
The idea that there are people advocating against extremely fat people having to pay for two seats on planes is a batshit example of the direction we need to go essentially opposite of.
We literally let kids be traumatized for life by bullies and do not much to stop it, yet somehow full-grown adults are so fragile they supposedly cannot handle any subtle implication that they are fat and need to live healthier…
i think those two things may be more closely related that you think…
Why not say what you mean? I’m guessing your point is that bullying makes people more fragile but that’s just a guess.
you’re right, i should have. i hate when people do that, don’t know why i decided to be cryptic.
if we ignore for a second the role of industry in this whole thing, which is significant, people don’t just “become” sedentary and obese. eating can become a coping mechanism to deal with external trauma, and the way to regulate coping mechanisms is not to add more trauma. getting people to a healthier mental state is a good way to get them to care more about their bodies.
The “bullying” being advocated for here, to me, meant “not coddling anymore”. I’m not advocating for actually bullying anyone. I probably read the comment this way because I’ve known people to use the word in a more lighthearted way, such as “I bullied you into giving me a ride” meaning “I asked you last minute and you felt obligated (sorry)”.
In the context of this floor marking, I thought the idea was to not shy fully away from ever mentioning the topic. I am certainly not advocating for actual bullying. What I was getting at was that children develop hangups for life due to school bullies and practically no one cares. My teachers and bus drivers did little to stop me from getting bullied. That feels weird coming from the same society that is now so afraid an adult might feel fat sometimes, that they rarely talk about it. I know that some fat people get a ton of flak over a lifetime and that’s shitty, but I don’t think this floor signage is even close to that flak.