I don’t disagree with this, but even in your statement they had overwhelming support of proletariat. There will be no vanguard if we don’t have an organized, unionized, proletariat. So I still think as it stands we’re just waiting around for a small group of people to do the revolution and just accept their conception. Which would be a bad idea, which is why I think workers need to realize aspects of this world that is worth fighting for right now
We need to normalize not just starting worker owned and run co-ops, but taking over businesses and converting them to these co-ops.
Federate the co-ops, establish a shared workforce (one co-op goes under/not enough business at x? Come work at y) and have them become actual workers councils
The Marxist critiques of this are not lost on me, co-ops are not immune to exploitation and fool proof by virtue of existing under capitalism but I think we need them for two reasons:
Sitting around and waiting for a revolution from a small group of people with one idea of how to run things is a bad idea
We need to practice what actual day to day life will look like. I think the experiences and connections made will far outweigh all of the bookclubs, protests and other purely political avenues of organizing
It doesn’t need to be all central planning and state owned, it doesn’t all have to be zaney pure communal experimentation right from the start …people could just literally experience going to work at a normal job but feel the agency of having a say in their workplace, not live in fear of an overbearing boss, decide their wages, always have a place in case their job implodes or they become redundant (bounce to co-op y).
Removed by mod
Genuinely curious, why are there rich people in China? Or why are the rich allowed to exist?
I still think the distinction matters, fascism is the empire turned inwards.
America exerting fascism on other populations is just textbook liberalism. The facade of democracy and relative peace at home is different than fascism. Fascism demands obedience of the local population and is a full merger of corporation and state. Laws don’t matter, only the head of states will matters.
They’re both bad, but I think it’s disingenuous to tell people who are about to live under fascism that the liberal government they just had was also fascism because they oppressed populations around the globe.
Basically the time for lectures was when we were living under fake “fascism” and the time for gun and survival training is now
I don’t disagree that liberal democracies are capable and have been brutal to their populations, but to say they are just as brutal as fascism is just disingenuous. Contrary to popular belief, the average American does not live day to day in fear that they are about to get fucked by the state for no reason at all, and that’s even acknowledging the measures the state goes to criminalize and punish the most desperate in us society. We don’t fear state repression and death for the wrong opinion, looking a certain way.
It’s even more absurd to conflate fascism with European western democracies with their myriad of safety nets. I think painting things in this light doesn’t make socialism more appealing, just makes fascism look more acceptable and less dangerous.
I agree with critiques on us imperialism and the need for socialism, I just think it’s strange to treat fascism with kids gloves
I think this is the critique I share. A lot of leftists who seem to be from outside the US are putting on their theory and history caps and pointing out how bad the US is as an imperial power, ignoring that right now Americans who see what is happening would do anything to revert things to the way they were even if that was the neo liberal status quo. Sure could have used this analysis in more peaceful times when the Jakarta method wasn’t a real possibility facing socialist discourse. When facing fascism at home the last thing you care about is exactly the precise and correct way history should play out. In this sense I feel like the left absolutely fails constantly, for all the talk of international solidarity there sure is a lack of organizing. Can’t organize with anyone who isn’t a Marxist, I guess?
I also feel like saying the US was always fascist is skewing the definition of fascism and defanging it. “America was always fascist” makes it seem like the real fascism we are facing should be business as usual. Fascism is a distinct and brutal form of capitalism. Marxists have known about this, and I feel conflating with neo liberalism is revisionist.
The analysis is correct, in that America was always a force of oppression across the globe, but that doesn’t change the fact the local population enjoyed some sort of stability and predictability. Economically suppressed with a corporate two party system? Of course. Arbitrary overt censorship and rounding up of civilians? Not necessarily, and that is where we are going. Is it hypocritical to turn a blind eye to the suffering of people around the world? Sure, but most people are not aware of this, and doesn’t change the sheer terror you begin to feel when the oppression comes home.
Honestly this is true of many smart people in specialized professions
Infamously software developers are fucking knuckle dragging morons about anything that has nothing to do with what they’re good at, but they think they’re god kings and think the world works like a computer
The only hallmark of intelligence I subscribe to is when someone just acknowledges they don’t know everything and listen. Everyone else is doom spiraling into thought terminating patterns while thinking they’re right